A brief follow-up to my previous post…
Peer Pressure is very powerful.
Most of us are, and often rightly so, hesitant to speak up to people violating social etiquette. It’s often simply not worth it and just creates conflict where it’s not really necessary or beneficial.
But sometimes it is worth it.
My guess is that my speaking up to the folks who broke in line and hogged a bunch of tables in Ess-a-Bagel made an impression on them, and others, and that at least a few will be less likely to hog tables in the future, because they now realize how boorish their behavior was, or simply for fear of being called out.
I spend just about every morning, whatever city I’m in, in a café, writing. There are 2 or 3 that have become favorites and that I frequent fairly often. Besides really good cappuccino’s, I like a place where I can have some level of privacy for my laptop screen and where the noise is a sort of a non-distracting murmur.
Occasionally, if someone is talking a lot louder than others and keeps on and on with it, I’ll give them a look that usually gets the message across. If that doesn’t work I might ask them, nicely*, if they can use their inside voices. On several occasions I’ve been thanked by others for saying something to someone who was annoying many. In one café I was recently told that the annoyingly loud talking has noticeably decreased since I’ve been coming in there (and I’ll note that I rarely even say anything anymore). Apparently others have also taken up the ‘inside voice’ banner when I’m not there.
One particularly interesting comment was a gal telling me about a guy I’d said something to almost a year ago. His reaction at the time was to tell me to mind my own business (I responded that I was finding that difficult since he seemed so intent on making his business mine). She said that the next couple of times I came in he quickly quieted down and after a while began talking quieter all the time. Bravo!
My goal, by the way, isn’t to embarrass anyone but simply to communicate that their actions are negatively impacting others around them.
Full Disclosure: The loud talking thing is interesting because I’m far from innocent on this one. I don’t naturally talk very quietly and have had to very intentionally talk quieter so that I don’t annoy others.
What Would Jesus Do?
Well, I’m pretty confident he wouldn’t have acted like I did. Would he have said anything at all? Called down a lightning strike on the dude? I really don’t have a clue what he would have done. Sometime I hope to do a Bible study on Christ’s social etiquette.
One scenario I can imagine is one of his disciples effectively playing my role and then Jesus calmly saying to his disciple (and loud enough for those around to hear), “This man is ignorant of what he is doing, leave him be, he doesn’t know any better.” Likewise I can imagine Jesus totally berating his disciple for actions similar to mine with something like “Ignorant fool. Do you think you are better than this man? Do you never act boorish? Are you perfect in all ways?”
I’m not very good at allowing people to negatively impact me. If someone breaks in line I’m very likely to say something. Likewise if the kid (or adult) behind me on a plane is kicking the back of my seat, or any number of similar things. I don’t believe that being meek means rolling over, but has more to do with self-control and not loosing our cool or being an arrogant jerk. I could have exhibited a bit more meekness in Ess-A-Bagel and still gotten my point across.
Chitlins in Paris
Some time ago I intended to start a blog called Chitlins in Paris for discussion of café culture, food, and travel. Done.
* And nicer today than yesterday. My family has pointed out to me on a few occasions that my rather direct demeanor, while not intended to, can come across as anger.
Showing posts with label cafe culture. Show all posts
Showing posts with label cafe culture. Show all posts
Wednesday, August 11, 2010
Friday, August 6, 2010
Café Etiquette: Holding Tables
Had an interesting experience in New York this past weekend. Went to a place called Ess-A-Bagel, somewhere about 50th and 3rd. Long line of people – not unusual for a New York bagel place. The 4 of us got in line, ordered, got our food, paid, and then went to sit down.
They have about15 small tables (30” round?) and maybe 45 chairs. 3 tables and 6 chairs were being held by a man and his 2 kids – one at each table. His wife and other 2 kids were in the back of the line – about 20 minutes or more from ordering. All other tables were full of people who had their food. I asked, nicely, if we could use one of the tables and 4 of the chairs. Dad said no “We’re holding them.”
We looked around - no other place to sit with our trays of food. Stood for a couple of minutes then asked a second time. He again said no. I looked around and nobody else appeared to be near finished. Only other potential was 1 guy with coffee sitting at a table with 2 empty chairs. I told the dad holding the 3 tables that they shouldn’t hog a bunch of tables when they hadn’t yet gotten their food (I was losing my nice). At this his wife stepped out of line and berated me. I responded that common courtesy is to get your food first and then get a table. A couple of guys in line behind her yelled at me. My son wisely stepped in at this point and told me to just ignore them.
While we stood waiting for another table to finish the cashier cleared some loaves of bread off a table and gave us 2 chairs. I was able to get another chair so 3 sat and 1 stood. BTW, this wouldn’t have bothered me if the place were full of people who were eating – that’s life. It was that I stood while this guy and his two kids sat with no food in 3 chairs and held 3 empty chairs and tables when they didn’t yet need them.
When we were done and headed out the dad and his kids were still sitting there holding the tables and empty chairs, and still without any food. Mom and other 2 kids were still waiting on their food. Interestingly my son noted that the 2 guys behind the mother who’d yelled at me had joined the coffee drinker who, when they came in, had purchased a coffee quickly so he could grab a table and hold it for his 2 buddies. No wonder they were so sensitive over the issue.
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Holding tables is like breaking in line. The line in self-serve cafés goes something like; order, get food, pay, get table. Or sometimes; order, pay, get table, food delivered to table.
Tables have time value. During the time that the dad was holding the tables with his kids waiting on his wife to order and bring their food, 6 to 12 other people could have used those tables*. And while they wait in line other tables will free up for them to use.
On average, if people hold tables like this a café needs 30% to 90% more tables (and thus expensive space) to accommodate the same number of people as they will if nobody holds tables.
Hogging a table before getting your food isn’t fair to those who arrived before you and have already waited in line and gotten their food. Most people understand this and are courteous enough to not hold tables in a busy place. Unfortunately the number of people who lack common regard for others seems to be growing. More and more cafés are having to put in signs about common decency such as “Do NOT get your table until you’ve ordered and paid for your food.”
Ess-A-Bagel should do the same for the few inconsiderate folks who want to hog tables.
Conclusion of the story… As we were leaving my son hung back a bit and apologized for our yelling at them. He said that they were wrong for hogging the tables when they didn’t have food, but that didn’t make it right for us to yell at them. Ah, nothing like learning maturity from your kid (though I’m quite proud to!) He also noted that the guys kids seemed quite embarrassed by the whole thing.
* Let’s do some math. Assuming 3 people per table, the 15 tables in Ess-A-Bagel can accommodate 45 people for an hour each, 90 people for 30 minutes each, or 135 people for 20 minutes each. If it takes 20 minutes to get your food and 20 minutes to eat, then twice as many people can eat sitting down if nobody holds tables as can if people like this man hold tables while waiting on someone else to order and bring their food.
They have about15 small tables (30” round?) and maybe 45 chairs. 3 tables and 6 chairs were being held by a man and his 2 kids – one at each table. His wife and other 2 kids were in the back of the line – about 20 minutes or more from ordering. All other tables were full of people who had their food. I asked, nicely, if we could use one of the tables and 4 of the chairs. Dad said no “We’re holding them.”
We looked around - no other place to sit with our trays of food. Stood for a couple of minutes then asked a second time. He again said no. I looked around and nobody else appeared to be near finished. Only other potential was 1 guy with coffee sitting at a table with 2 empty chairs. I told the dad holding the 3 tables that they shouldn’t hog a bunch of tables when they hadn’t yet gotten their food (I was losing my nice). At this his wife stepped out of line and berated me. I responded that common courtesy is to get your food first and then get a table. A couple of guys in line behind her yelled at me. My son wisely stepped in at this point and told me to just ignore them.
While we stood waiting for another table to finish the cashier cleared some loaves of bread off a table and gave us 2 chairs. I was able to get another chair so 3 sat and 1 stood. BTW, this wouldn’t have bothered me if the place were full of people who were eating – that’s life. It was that I stood while this guy and his two kids sat with no food in 3 chairs and held 3 empty chairs and tables when they didn’t yet need them.
When we were done and headed out the dad and his kids were still sitting there holding the tables and empty chairs, and still without any food. Mom and other 2 kids were still waiting on their food. Interestingly my son noted that the 2 guys behind the mother who’d yelled at me had joined the coffee drinker who, when they came in, had purchased a coffee quickly so he could grab a table and hold it for his 2 buddies. No wonder they were so sensitive over the issue.
-------------
Holding tables is like breaking in line. The line in self-serve cafés goes something like; order, get food, pay, get table. Or sometimes; order, pay, get table, food delivered to table.
Tables have time value. During the time that the dad was holding the tables with his kids waiting on his wife to order and bring their food, 6 to 12 other people could have used those tables*. And while they wait in line other tables will free up for them to use.
On average, if people hold tables like this a café needs 30% to 90% more tables (and thus expensive space) to accommodate the same number of people as they will if nobody holds tables.
Hogging a table before getting your food isn’t fair to those who arrived before you and have already waited in line and gotten their food. Most people understand this and are courteous enough to not hold tables in a busy place. Unfortunately the number of people who lack common regard for others seems to be growing. More and more cafés are having to put in signs about common decency such as “Do NOT get your table until you’ve ordered and paid for your food.”
Ess-A-Bagel should do the same for the few inconsiderate folks who want to hog tables.
Café Etiquette:
If a café is crowded, order and pay for your food BEFORE grabbing a table. This allows others who arrived before you and already have their food to use the table.
Conclusion of the story… As we were leaving my son hung back a bit and apologized for our yelling at them. He said that they were wrong for hogging the tables when they didn’t have food, but that didn’t make it right for us to yell at them. Ah, nothing like learning maturity from your kid (though I’m quite proud to!) He also noted that the guys kids seemed quite embarrassed by the whole thing.
* Let’s do some math. Assuming 3 people per table, the 15 tables in Ess-A-Bagel can accommodate 45 people for an hour each, 90 people for 30 minutes each, or 135 people for 20 minutes each. If it takes 20 minutes to get your food and 20 minutes to eat, then twice as many people can eat sitting down if nobody holds tables as can if people like this man hold tables while waiting on someone else to order and bring their food.
Monday, March 1, 2010
Boorish Behavior
Note: I wrote this earlier and forgot to post…
This morning I was in my favorite café writing the previous post about Harry Reid and rationing healthcare. When I sat at my table I noticed a college-aged girl sitting at a table by herself not too far away from me. About an hour later she was joined by a friend. They talked and laughed, kind of loudly. Maybe 30 minutes later a 3rd friend joined them and their collective loudness increased. It wasn’t just their talking, which was quite louder than it needed to be for all of them to hear, but every few minutes they would erupt into raucous laughing cackles.
Their loud talking was distracting, but I was fairly successful in tuning it out. The cackles were another thing entirely, completely interrupting my train of thought with each outburst.
After some time I finally leaned over and asked if they could “use their inside voices”.
They weren’t amused. One of them was quite offended. But they did quiet down. And I quit bugging them. (that last sentence added just so I could use quite, quiet, and quit in one paragraph ). Two guys sitting on the other side of their table from me mouthed their thanks for my saying something.
About 15 minutes later they announced, somewhat loudly, “Let’s get out of here.”. And off they went. Of course, unlike most patrons of this wonderful café, they didn’t bother to remove their dirty cups so the table would be clean for the next person.
As I was getting ready to leave a woman walked over and thanked me for saying something. I appreciated that.
Where do we draw the line? What behavior is acceptable and what behavior is not. At what point is it proper to correct someone else’s behavior?
If I’m in a drinking pub in Scotland I’d never say anything to someone about being too loud or obnoxious. It’s acceptable and rather expected. There are nuances though. For one, a pub is not a pub is not a pub. Loud and obnoxious isn’t as acceptable in a pub that sells as much food as drink. Loud and obnoxious is more acceptable later than earlier.
In cafés around Europe loud and obnoxious behavior is quite unacceptable and it’s not unusual for staff or others to say something to loud folk (who are often American). Same goes for trains and other public places. In many European countries there’s a pretty strong belief that you should do what you can to avoid interfering with or irritating others. They talk just loud enough for their friends to hear.
In the U.S.?
This morning I was in my favorite café writing the previous post about Harry Reid and rationing healthcare. When I sat at my table I noticed a college-aged girl sitting at a table by herself not too far away from me. About an hour later she was joined by a friend. They talked and laughed, kind of loudly. Maybe 30 minutes later a 3rd friend joined them and their collective loudness increased. It wasn’t just their talking, which was quite louder than it needed to be for all of them to hear, but every few minutes they would erupt into raucous laughing cackles.
Their loud talking was distracting, but I was fairly successful in tuning it out. The cackles were another thing entirely, completely interrupting my train of thought with each outburst.
After some time I finally leaned over and asked if they could “use their inside voices”.
They weren’t amused. One of them was quite offended. But they did quiet down. And I quit bugging them. (that last sentence added just so I could use quite, quiet, and quit in one paragraph ). Two guys sitting on the other side of their table from me mouthed their thanks for my saying something.
About 15 minutes later they announced, somewhat loudly, “Let’s get out of here.”. And off they went. Of course, unlike most patrons of this wonderful café, they didn’t bother to remove their dirty cups so the table would be clean for the next person.
As I was getting ready to leave a woman walked over and thanked me for saying something. I appreciated that.
Where do we draw the line? What behavior is acceptable and what behavior is not. At what point is it proper to correct someone else’s behavior?
If I’m in a drinking pub in Scotland I’d never say anything to someone about being too loud or obnoxious. It’s acceptable and rather expected. There are nuances though. For one, a pub is not a pub is not a pub. Loud and obnoxious isn’t as acceptable in a pub that sells as much food as drink. Loud and obnoxious is more acceptable later than earlier.
In cafés around Europe loud and obnoxious behavior is quite unacceptable and it’s not unusual for staff or others to say something to loud folk (who are often American). Same goes for trains and other public places. In many European countries there’s a pretty strong belief that you should do what you can to avoid interfering with or irritating others. They talk just loud enough for their friends to hear.
In the U.S.?
Tuesday, February 16, 2010
Simple Public Decorum
Are people less considerate of others than they used to be? Are people in the U.S. less considerate of others than people in Europe? Or Asia?
Yesterday I was working in one of my favorite cafes. There is a line of about 10 small rectangular tables lined up along one wall that are prime spots for people with laptops. The table next to me was empty and a woman who’s a professor at a local university put her bag on it and began to get her laptop out when she noticed a friend sitting nearby. She stopped to talk to him briefly and as their conversation continued she sat in the chair to rest her legs (she walks with a cane, not sure why).
About 10 minutes later a guy who was sitting in one of the sofa’s came over, grabbed her bag and then shouted at me “Is this yours?”
“No.” I replied as I reached to keep her laptop from falling out of her bag.
The professor shouted over that it was hers and her friend came over and grabbed her bag from the ofe who was still holding it.
I said no more until about 30 minutes later as I was putting my laptop away to leave. I mentioned to the guy that he really shouldn’t grab other people’s stuff without asking. He was quite offended by my saying this.
Yesterday I was working in one of my favorite cafes. There is a line of about 10 small rectangular tables lined up along one wall that are prime spots for people with laptops. The table next to me was empty and a woman who’s a professor at a local university put her bag on it and began to get her laptop out when she noticed a friend sitting nearby. She stopped to talk to him briefly and as their conversation continued she sat in the chair to rest her legs (she walks with a cane, not sure why).
About 10 minutes later a guy who was sitting in one of the sofa’s came over, grabbed her bag and then shouted at me “Is this yours?”
“No.” I replied as I reached to keep her laptop from falling out of her bag.
The professor shouted over that it was hers and her friend came over and grabbed her bag from the ofe who was still holding it.
I said no more until about 30 minutes later as I was putting my laptop away to leave. I mentioned to the guy that he really shouldn’t grab other people’s stuff without asking. He was quite offended by my saying this.
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